rr33r7rr6r4

I love to make cycle animations first, loop them and adjust little bit to make base animations look more natural.

To do that, I often copy & paste the keys to extend the animation.
After 4.1 update, when I try to use the same method, the graphs just break.

Honeycam 2022-07-05 13-06-59.gif

11.PNG


Seems like the weights are gone to space.
This may seem like a minor visual issue, but they actually ruin the animation.
I can fix them by re-doing all the beziers, but they're too many and slowing me down.







And about the new control, before 4.1 update, in the graph editor, I could deselect keys by clicking empty spaces on the graph editor and move the selected keys when dragging.

22.PNG


But after 4.1, I can't deselect keys by clicking on the editor if "Drag to edit" option is on. It allows me to only move the selected keys. I have to chose only one option between click to deselect or drag to move. (I actually have only one option because new editor doesn't allow me to deselect with the "Drag to edit" option on.)


So, it forces me turn the option off and use different controls I've been using in Spine for years.
I really wish I could use the original way of control.




33.png

44.png

The last things I want to report is, where is the x y axis lock indicator?
And why value/shape button is hidden in small button in the corner?

Since shift+dragging works different in spine, I often just locked axis to move keys horizontally / vertically.
The hotkeys I set seems to work for now, too. But I can't see if it's locked or not.



I love the new export options and new sequence feature, but 4.1 was a total disaster for me for the past few days.








+Edit
I found out how to easily fix the graph

Honeycam 2022-07-05 18-20-28.gif


What I had to do is just touch any keyframe in the editor.
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rr33r7rr6r4
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Erika

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback,
I am trying to reproduce the first issue you mentioned on my projects, but I keep being able to copy-paste curves without issues. I thought at first that maybe you were pasting keys after a non looping animation, but also trying this did not produce your results.
rr33r7rr6r4 wrote:But after 4.1, I can't deselect keys by clicking on the editor if "Drag to edit" option is on. It allows me to only move the selected keys. I have to chose only one option between click to deselect or drag to move. (I actually have only one option because new editor doesn't allow me to deselect with the "Drag to edit" option on.)
I tested this, and the workflow to use to deselect is to press the spacebar. Holding CTRL (CMD on Mac) lets you box select as when the option is off.
rr33r7rr6r4 wrote:where is the x y axis lock indicator?
You can get the same result by holding CTRL (CMD on Mac) while dragging a key, if that helps! (Nate may chime in as for where it has gone)
rr33r7rr6r4 wrote:And why value/shape button is hidden in small button in the corner?
This is to have a more compact UI as that's something you set and use less compared to other buttons.
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Erika

Erikari
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rr33r7rr6r4

Thanks for the answers! But here's the things I still don't get it.



1. deselecting keys

I'll just put the original last sentence of this section here.
Can you explain [can't deselect keys by clicking on graph editor's empty area when "Drag to edit" option is on after 4.1 update] is a bug or an intended change?
Maybe we're talking about different things.

At 4.0, 'Drag to edit' was an option that allows us to move the selected keys by dragging on emtpy area.
And still, it allowed us to deselect keys by clicking on empty area.

This was a super handy option and I believe it was a default on option.

After 4.1, this option doesn't allow us to deselect keys by clicking on empty area anymore. Clicking just acts the same like dragging, it holds the key.
I just don't know why the team has changed the previous version that worked perfectly.




Two reasons why deselecting on empty was good and saved decent amount of time.

a. I can use much easier box selection like controlling units in Starcraft instead of directly clicking on the exact key: which is a very small square point.
Since I can deselect anytime, I can use box selection all the time. And that makes changing selections very quick. Plus, I don't even have to directly click on the keys move them.

(If I can't deselect, I can't use box selection because it won't make box and just drag the selected keys.)
(ctrl drag does make box anytime, but it 'adds' keys to current selection, doesn't reset or change. so, that doesn't help the situation now.)


b. I don't have to re-select anything.
If I use spacebar to deselect keys, I end up also deselecting the bone I was animating. That makes me to select the bone again and again.



Deselecting bone will also bring up all the graphs in the current animation. Do I have to lock the list or filter it out everytime to see the graph I was working on?
- No. That's super comlicated and confusing at the same time. I have to do few more actions that I didn't have to.
That's why I just turned the "Drag to edit" option off and clicking on the exact keys and beziers now.

Since it's different from the original way Spine worked / I worked few days ago, this way is really uncomfortable, too.
But it's less time-comsuming. That's why I'm just adapting to new control.




2. vertical / horizontal move

Holding CTRL while dragging doesn't let me to move keys horizontally / vertically. 💔
Is there a hot key automatically locks x/y axis in Spine?

I mean. even without axis lock, Spine's snap feature is good. But I'm struggling to move horizontally since it's snap, not lock. This really bothered me enough to make me set up a y axis lock hot key. It'll be really nice to know if there's one.
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rr33r7rr6r4
  • Posts: 6

Sinisa

Hi rr33r7rr6r4,

Regarding axis lock, you can set up your own hotkeys. In the settings, under hotkeys search for Graph X - Momentary: or Graph Y - Momentary:
Depending on which axis you want to lock.
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Sinisa

Sinisa
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Nate

Thanks for the feedback! It's a new version with a lot of changes, so sometimes things get through that upset some workflows. Ideally we iron these out in beta, but we will still be doing a few more 4.1 releases before fully focusing on 4.2. I'm sure we can find ways to adjust things to make you happy again.
After 4.1 update, when I try to use the same method, the graphs just break.
We would like to reproduce the graph breaking so we can fix it. It's very strange! Can you post or email a project where the graph is broken? Or can you provide steps for how we can cause the problem to happen?
I actually have only one option because new editor doesn't allow me to deselect with the "Drag to edit" option on.
Why can't you uncheck the Drag to edit setting?
Can you explain [can't deselect keys by clicking on graph editor's empty area when "Drag to edit" option is on after 4.1 update] is a bug or an intended change?
This appears to be a bug! :o We'll dig into it more and get back to you soon (today).

You might consider this workaround: throughout Spine middle click always allows you to make a new selection. You can use it to click a key to select it or to box select, even if you already have keys selected. You can also middle click in empty space to deselect. I know changing how you use any tool can be painful. Middle click is super useful though, and it also works in the editor viewport for selecting bones and attachments without needing to deselect.
The last things I want to report is, where is the x y axis lock indicator?
They are gone, sorry. The graph toolbar was growing into a monstrosity, it had so many buttons. The toolbar takes up prime real estate. It makes sense to have access to buttons that are used relatively often, but we have to be careful it doesn't become a junk drawer for everything. We wanted to reduce it to a more reasonable size, so we decided to remove the X/Y axis lock and value/shape buttons.

X/Y axis lock is still available via hotkeys, as I think you've found. You're right you can't see if it's on/off, we'll add a toast (popup) message. There are also momentary hotkeys, which only lock the axis while held. You might find those more useful.

In our experience, it is very rare to need X/Y axis lock because Spine always does snapping when moving keys left/right or up/down. This shows up as a white line from the old key position to the moved key position. Note this is not the same as enabling key snapping. It's a different kind of snapping that is always active.
And why value/shape button is hidden in small button in the corner?
We found that people very rarely change this setting, so it doesn't need to take up so much toolbar space.

---

In 4.1.02 we've fixed being able to click empty space to deselect in the graph.
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Nate

Nate
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rr33r7rr6r4

I've been trying to reproduce the graph breaking.
I just made a simple loop to test that bug.


This happens in every project.
And the result changed everytime I re-opened a project.





Here's what I found out.


1. Copy & pasting in the same animation works perfectly.

1.gif





2. But, if I try to paste keys in another animation, graph randomly breaks in two ways.


2-1. Graph will lose random beziers.

Honeycam 2022-07-06 05-20-54.gif



2-2. Graph will break losing beziers.

21.gif







222.png

211.png


The common thing about these two is, they lost one or two beziers and it's ruining the graph.
The bug also seemed to appear in both ways on one project, but it stayed in one form before opening a new project.

34.png


In this session the trans graph will always be broken while the scale graph will always go linear.



The way to get the different results was just re-opening a project. Not even had to close Spine. And by re-opening over and over, sometimes pasting didn't break and worked. That's wired.

And I checked if there's specific pattern or something about what causes which key to break, but it was just random and 'the key that breaks' will always be the same key before opening a new project, too.
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rr33r7rr6r4
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Nate

I see your screenshots of the graph broken, but I haven't been able to make it happen. I copy keys from one animation, paste in another, and it works like it should. Can you please give step-by-step instructions that will let us see the problem? We'd love to fix it!

---

We'd still like to fix this. Any chance you can provide a project and instructions so we can see the problem?

---

We've fixed missing Bezier handles after pasting in 4.1.05. We've not been able to reproduce the handles breaking.

---

Actually, I think we got it! Bezier handles breaking after paste should also be fixed in 4.1.05.
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Nate

Nate
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rr33r7rr6r4

Sorry for not being here for a while. Been busy doing other project. I was planning to make a step-by-step video of this issue after finishing it, but I guess I missed the timing. :bigeyed:

I'm really glad that it's fixed now!


You guys really are the best dev team in the world. ;) ;) ;)
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rr33r7rr6r4
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Nate

No worries, we're just glad you took the time to let us know about the problems! All these other users and you were the only one that let us know! :yuno: Hopefully all is working properly now. :)
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Nate

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mumu

-4a98e925691a2401.gif


When copying and pasting a whole animation, the handle angle of the first and last frames is a little strange
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mumu
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Nate

Can you show what you mean?
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Nate

Nate
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